I can understand how someone could watch or listen to this interview and think that Bonnie Blue puts forth a very good argument to justify what she does. We live such individualistic lives, that it is tempting to think that because she is forthright and honest in her communication, that little harm is being done. However, as I listened to this interview, I kept saying out loud, "but you are harming your community." I don't think she would see it that way, because she considers her community friends and family, who obviously seem to support her. However, she is linked to much larger community than just those people, whether she understands that or not. Each time she has sex with a young man, a married man, or any man, that has ripple effects on the community around her. Young women will see how successful she is and try and imitate her, although they most likely don't have the psychological make-up that she has. Her acts don't just end when the deed is done, they go on and on and on. There's no way to comprehend the effects of her decisions and the decisions of the men that have sex with her.
We have lost the ability to see ourselves as parts of communities that extend beyond our immediate families and closest friends. Humans are meant to work and strive for the good of those around them, not just for their own good. We are connected to those we live around, not just the people we live with. When I hear interviews like this one, it is quite clear that we are losing any sense of connection to the greater good, where we work towards the good of the community as a whole. I found this interview quite sad, because there is a joy in being a good neighbor and to witness a thriving community. I anticipate we will continue to move towards a more and more individualistic society and there's no accounting for what we will lose in the process.
She did admit she's selfish, and truthfully came off that way to me. I feel the same about this. She's worried about the people directly in front of her with no thought to what her full impact is.
Excellent comment. I'm about an hour-and-a-half in and in the odd position of being no longer very shocked by what is some of the most outrageous content I've ever heard (though you'd have had to pick me up off the floor twenty minutes in!).
I've never heard a woman (or even anyone?) be so dispassionate, and frankly reasonable (in a literal, rational way), about all of this stuff before. Once you get used to the subject-matter you might as well be listening to any small business owner pushing a product – she might be enthusiastic about what she does, but weirdly I find myself discounting all of it as kind-of-cute-but-basically-irrelevant, just as I might feel about a new salon that I'll never go to.
A couple of thoughts I had:
1. As you say, 'community' just doesn't enter into it at all. I actually don't think she thinks it exists – as in, I literally don't think she understands the (paired) concept that you might have influence over other people in sum AND that you have duties/responsibilities because of that which you cannot avoid. She talks about warnings and disclaimers so she is aware of the vague territory – but the idea that we are participating in something that is bigger than us is completely absent.
It's a picture of what total atomisation looks like, basically. I'd be fascinated to know if any Americans think it sounds odd, because hearing a British person talk like this sounds very weird. You might hear a similar attitude from a rationalist criminal or a particularly ruthless businessman, but that'd be it.
2. Chris zoning in on what she was saying about how her family must have felt at the film premiere—"again, not an emotion"—was really good interviewing. I wish he'd pushed her a little more actually. It seemed like such a lack of insight into other people's feelings, which didn't entirely match the outwardly-fairly-nice woman in the rest of the interview. I'm left quite confused by it – again, not a combination I've ever come across before.
PS fabulous interview, well done Louise. Challenging in the best possible way. I did wonder for a short time whether she might start ‘interviewing’ *you* about how you saw this side of life – but again because of the above it’s becoming clear that there’s no way this is going to end up there.
1. I am American, and I think many (not all) Americans would think that her arguments make a lot of sense. Louise was spot on when she said that this is ultimately where sexual freedom and capitalism lead when taken to the extreme. To hear her rationalize her lifestyle in those terms would probably convince a lot of people that what she's doing is fine.
2. I agree that moment when Chris was pushing her to name an emotion was excellent! Again, I kept talking to myself and saying, "it's embarrassment or shame", but I don't think she'd ever admit that. And honestly, that might not be an emotion she's capable of feeling. I do agree with Chris and Louise that she is a unique personality.
It truly was an excellent interview by Chris and Louise and it was refreshing to hear two hours of calm and measured questions formed by genuine curiosity. I cannot defend what Bonnie Blue is doing and think the effects are detrimental, but I do understand her rationale more than I did before the interview.
Thanks. My question 1 was because her attitude struck me as something one might hear from an American—and we might accept coming from an American—but which sounds ridiculous coming from a Brit. In the same way as I'm always tickled to hear from British people who claim to be libertarians, because we live in each other's pockets and under the gaze of all the generations who've come before in a way that you do not. It's the sort of total self-containment that might make sense out on the frontier, but doesn't really work if you grew up in Nuneaton.
Ngl, my respect for Bonnie kinda went up after listening to the full episode. She came across as reasonable and her personality came off as rather sweet and nice, even if her career choice would be considered a moral failing by most.
There was an interesting comment on the YouTube video that I though was insightful where someone said she almost has a similar mental fortitude to soldiers/spec ops guys in that she can do something that would sicken most people (women in this case) but she can still sleep well after it. Almost like a mental superpower. I thought it was interesting observation.
That "mental superpower" isn't siloed from the rest of the brain, i.e., if someone is able to kill another person in war, it does not mean that effect is unique to the context of war. A lot of soldiers are traumatized into emotional numbness, not many of them start off that way but the ones that do can often apply that state of mind in situations where it isn't appropriate. It isn't necessarily mental fortitude but a display of antisocial behavior. It's useful to a soldier, it's at best not healthy in most situations and at worst fatal.
I saw that one too. I would agree with you that her choice of career is less than moral, but I do think that on the whole people like her with that personality are useful to everyone, if deployed in the eight way.
What struck me about BB was that she displayed a similar behaviour of both Louise and Chris. On their respective podcasts I've heard them both, when confronted with a word or topic that they don't know, simply ask their guest straight out rather than pretend that they know.
Bonnie did this 6-7 times during the podcast, with words from both Louise and Chris, without a hint of her feeling stupid at not knowing. I'd say this was a positive thing.
The vibes of this interview are fascinating. Louise’s intense curiosity about Bonnie - and her determination to be humane - overlaid with Chris’s barely concealed contempt (and almost simmering rage) towards her. All the while Bonnie looks on with emotional flatness.
This interview showed a different side of him. I've watch many of his interviews and in them he's relaxed and engaged with his guest. In this interview, IMO, he had a difficult time concealing disgust/ irritation with BB, whilst his comeraderie with Louise was openly apparent. We don't know the interactions prior to the cameras rolling; I've read another interviewer report BB flirting/ making provocative comments to him, making the interview a bit awkward.
Honestly.... I think it's because she's a sociopath vs Lily who is clearly traumatized and seemingly exploited by her own family. A sociopath in the true sense of her brain is different and in the same manner that many CEOs, surgeons, journalists, financial sector people, etc. and many other outliers in all areas of life are. Not all sociopaths are murderers or criminals. This is also not a case for sex work but a case against it. As such an outlier, she cannot be an example for the average person and striving to be like her is not a possible thing if you have a normal brain.
I came here to write this. I am no psychoanalyst but to me, she seems to be sociopathic. Someone in the comments even mentioned that when she didn’t know something, she asked the question, even at the risk of being viewed as uneducated/unintelligent. Whilst I think this is sensible, a lot of people will go along with what’s being said as to not “look stupid” but she isn’t concerned with how she is viewed. What makes it worse is she craves notoriety/attention and this very podcast/debate buys right into that. I imagine she would be a high achiever in anything she pursued. Whether she will have long-term issues as a result of this lifestyle probably hinges on whether she is actually sociopathic or not. In some ways, I hope she is because I can’t see how this wouldn’t have a detrimental impact on her down the line
Yes, many if not most people have to overcome the discomfort of appearing vulnerable in any context and I don't think she even sees it as a vulnerability to ask. In some way I also hope she is but I think the people around her are more likely to have long term issues.
I remember reading or watching something from a person who was a high achieving executive type but she knew she was sociopath and had children. She showed love to them as she was socially expected on the surface, she was acting. She stated this. She claimed they didn't know. There's a TED talk by a man who studied sociopaths from a few years ago talking about he spotted his own sociopathy on brain scans while doing neuro research. He was a PhD research scientist in a difficult subject and said that he was protected by the love of his family and a good upbringing but when he thought about his personality traits of being competitive, high achieving regardless of consequence, curiosity regardless of outcome, etc. That's BB here.
If she is a sociopath she's also probably being honest about having a good family background, because that would protect her from going down the more common sex industry track deep into the abyss. She is not there to please others as she states. Unlike Lily who talked about being upset that the men participating in the 101 man travesty weren't having fun.
Near the end she talks about being bored with questions about her family dynamic and says "I can understand why you'd think it" in response. This highlights that she is aware of the common backgrounds and experience of women in the sex industry. She knows there's usually abuse otherwise she wouldn't understand why they'd ask questions about her family or growing up. She's aware of the problems.
Tia Emma Billinger makes White women look like whores.
Pornography truly is (anti-White) racist propaganda.
It is the primary reason why single foreign men are here.
It was interesting to see this issue of race addressed at 39 mins. in.
And Billinger's reply (43:16):
"I'm very selfish. I'm not too concerned about what's going off in the world."
Dirty slags like Billinger do not reduce "rape rates" - they are actually attracting thousands of diseased, inbred and hostile alien males into our country and into our backyards and homes.
This woman is the same thing as always - an excrescence of our own subverted moral standards, amplified by an invasion of foreign men and widespread poverty.
While the West obsesses over a tiny number of Africans that were briefly enslaved in the American south, these foreign - especially Islamic - men intend to reinstate the 1,400 years of White slavery that was briefly interrupted by the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
You were so kind to her! It was more of an analysis than a debate.
Your line of questioning and tactics were interesting but she’s boring to someone like me who knows a lot of happy and industrious sluts and prostitutes personally. What was exposed are the unusual characteristics that make her, as opposed to the majority of womankind, capable of making money how she does without serious problems.
The biggest problem with the Bonnie Blue phenomenon is that her life is seen as aspirational for young women.
Also, I felt that Louise was holding back from saying “yes, I believe that you are happy and this life doesn’t cause you distress etc., but it is bad for your soul!”
Finally, she is straightforwardly a menace to society, in a similar way to Andrew Tate but even more destructive ultimately, and should be banned from all college campuses.
An outstanding dyad interview. At all times respectful but so smart in the way it invites Bonnie to disclose so much more than she realises. One thing that you didn’t explore with her Louise was the constant reference to being happy .. herself or others - and what she means by it. She didn’t really have any other word to use did she?
My understanding is that Bonnie believes that it is only money and materialism that makes us happy. Even the price any future offspring will pay for their Mothers notoriety will be offset by a jetset lifestyle. I found this interview deeply disturbing and tragic .. she is so removed from her body she’s unable to identify feelings or have any facial expressions. Of course she is… how else could she do what she does without being out of body.
Well done both of you for never shaming or judging her and allowing her to reveal in her own words .. her psyche. A masterpiece of interviewing.
She comes across as streetwise, but not the most self-aware. Didn't seem malicious though, and she does seem to genuinely enjoy relieving horny teenage men. Which is a public service of sorts.
Her appetite for a queue of complete strangers is certainly unusual, but in many ways she's less a freak and more a product of her times. Just consider, she took family and relatives to see that screening. What kind of family would do that? And mothers stop her for selfies and say "I love your content!" So it's not just her; it's seeping into the culture.
I see what she's doing and feel sure it's wrong, but I struggle to explain why. I can think of reasons, but it's not the real reason. It reminds me of Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. I'm paraphrasing, but: "If a man buys a chicken from the supermarket, takes it home and has sex with it, then eats it, is that wrong?" or "If an adult brother and sister use contraception and have consensual sex, it that ok?" We know it's wrong, but have lost the language to say so. There is no moral framework left standing that can say, "women shouldn't do that".
I watched some of this (it’s long, but so much ground is covered), and my biggest takeaway is how our culture has come to treat sex as a hobby, rather than the most fundamental act of human connection and survival. It raises urgent questions, like what becomes of us, individually and collectively, when we strip meaning from the very process that ensures our future? I was moved enough to write a whole piece in response, Louise. The questions you’re surfacing are vital, and I deeply appreciate them, especially as I sit bedside with families each day, bearing witness to the profound and universal moment of birth.
Initial thoughts: Whenever a woman is still in the sex industry, she will put a positive spin on it, even if it's not true, because the financial motive is still there.
Regarding childhood trauma, Tia (Bonnie's real name) may not have experienced this, but she does have real or perceived trauma going on, and it's a mistake to think trauma has to be "one thing" or that it has to be childhood trauma. It can be composite trauma, or even just the perception.
With Tia, I think a lot of it has to do with something she has spoken about in interviews: bullying from other females and her former marriage. She even admits here that she "took a while" to realize that her ex-husband wasn't the one for her. She was ACTING for that period, and very likely disassociating.
BEFORE SHE ENTERED porn, she had known what it was like to PRETEND. And to pretend sexually.
She may say she doesn't "hate" other women, and women are not all the same in how they think, but she is likely also motivated by seeking a kind of "revenge" on the women who have wronged and bullied her, and the women who are in relationships with these men that she sexes are stand-ins for the "other" women--the mean, bullying ones. And there ARE many of these women.
She seems like she has hardly had female friendships and likely doesn't care anymore to have them. She seems pragmatic and focused on the money. There is no way gang-bangs are healthy, though, and, if she can endure them, it is because she is focused on WHAT THE CAMERA SEES and not what her body feels, or is TRYING to feel.
This is a numb and numbed woman, who participates in her own numbing, and thinks she has made a good trade-off.
Others have commented on the blankness in Tia's eyes. That's often the "disassociation" look, as well as the matter-of-fact way she talks about some extreme things, like "gang-bangs".
She likely feels like she had to "endure" sex before with her ex-husband, and this is preferred since she is now financially compensated by being filmed with random men who she doesn't have to share the bathroom with, which is why she says that the gold-digger married woman is more of a sex worker than she is. Touche! But I would counter with you BOTH are in the sex industry, and the gold-digger just is less likely to ADMIT it.
The only trustworthy narratives about the sex industry come from women who have left it, and I am glad that the author Rachel Moran is mentioned here. Her book, which she wrote after she left, is called "Paid For..."
I think a question Tia should have been asked would have been: "Did you feel you could choose between other equally financially lucrative options BEFORE going down this path?" Keeping in mind, of course, that she is still in the industry and will want to "mask" up and put that positive spin on it.
I would really like to understand the psychology of how Bonnie went from married life and trying for a baby to her current lifestyle. I am not sure how old she is but I assume she married quite young ( not typical these days ) and then speaks about trying to get pregnant for 18 months. I assume in a parallel universe there is a Bonnie we never heard of with a couple of kids. She led a very 'conventional' life up to this point, she dismisses it saying her jobs were boring, wouldn't want to be with her ex etc. I think both Louise and the host picked up on it at this point in the interview, I don't understand the 'leap'..........
I can understand how someone could watch or listen to this interview and think that Bonnie Blue puts forth a very good argument to justify what she does. We live such individualistic lives, that it is tempting to think that because she is forthright and honest in her communication, that little harm is being done. However, as I listened to this interview, I kept saying out loud, "but you are harming your community." I don't think she would see it that way, because she considers her community friends and family, who obviously seem to support her. However, she is linked to much larger community than just those people, whether she understands that or not. Each time she has sex with a young man, a married man, or any man, that has ripple effects on the community around her. Young women will see how successful she is and try and imitate her, although they most likely don't have the psychological make-up that she has. Her acts don't just end when the deed is done, they go on and on and on. There's no way to comprehend the effects of her decisions and the decisions of the men that have sex with her.
We have lost the ability to see ourselves as parts of communities that extend beyond our immediate families and closest friends. Humans are meant to work and strive for the good of those around them, not just for their own good. We are connected to those we live around, not just the people we live with. When I hear interviews like this one, it is quite clear that we are losing any sense of connection to the greater good, where we work towards the good of the community as a whole. I found this interview quite sad, because there is a joy in being a good neighbor and to witness a thriving community. I anticipate we will continue to move towards a more and more individualistic society and there's no accounting for what we will lose in the process.
She did admit she's selfish, and truthfully came off that way to me. I feel the same about this. She's worried about the people directly in front of her with no thought to what her full impact is.
Excellent comment. I'm about an hour-and-a-half in and in the odd position of being no longer very shocked by what is some of the most outrageous content I've ever heard (though you'd have had to pick me up off the floor twenty minutes in!).
I've never heard a woman (or even anyone?) be so dispassionate, and frankly reasonable (in a literal, rational way), about all of this stuff before. Once you get used to the subject-matter you might as well be listening to any small business owner pushing a product – she might be enthusiastic about what she does, but weirdly I find myself discounting all of it as kind-of-cute-but-basically-irrelevant, just as I might feel about a new salon that I'll never go to.
A couple of thoughts I had:
1. As you say, 'community' just doesn't enter into it at all. I actually don't think she thinks it exists – as in, I literally don't think she understands the (paired) concept that you might have influence over other people in sum AND that you have duties/responsibilities because of that which you cannot avoid. She talks about warnings and disclaimers so she is aware of the vague territory – but the idea that we are participating in something that is bigger than us is completely absent.
It's a picture of what total atomisation looks like, basically. I'd be fascinated to know if any Americans think it sounds odd, because hearing a British person talk like this sounds very weird. You might hear a similar attitude from a rationalist criminal or a particularly ruthless businessman, but that'd be it.
2. Chris zoning in on what she was saying about how her family must have felt at the film premiere—"again, not an emotion"—was really good interviewing. I wish he'd pushed her a little more actually. It seemed like such a lack of insight into other people's feelings, which didn't entirely match the outwardly-fairly-nice woman in the rest of the interview. I'm left quite confused by it – again, not a combination I've ever come across before.
PS fabulous interview, well done Louise. Challenging in the best possible way. I did wonder for a short time whether she might start ‘interviewing’ *you* about how you saw this side of life – but again because of the above it’s becoming clear that there’s no way this is going to end up there.
1. I am American, and I think many (not all) Americans would think that her arguments make a lot of sense. Louise was spot on when she said that this is ultimately where sexual freedom and capitalism lead when taken to the extreme. To hear her rationalize her lifestyle in those terms would probably convince a lot of people that what she's doing is fine.
2. I agree that moment when Chris was pushing her to name an emotion was excellent! Again, I kept talking to myself and saying, "it's embarrassment or shame", but I don't think she'd ever admit that. And honestly, that might not be an emotion she's capable of feeling. I do agree with Chris and Louise that she is a unique personality.
It truly was an excellent interview by Chris and Louise and it was refreshing to hear two hours of calm and measured questions formed by genuine curiosity. I cannot defend what Bonnie Blue is doing and think the effects are detrimental, but I do understand her rationale more than I did before the interview.
Thanks. My question 1 was because her attitude struck me as something one might hear from an American—and we might accept coming from an American—but which sounds ridiculous coming from a Brit. In the same way as I'm always tickled to hear from British people who claim to be libertarians, because we live in each other's pockets and under the gaze of all the generations who've come before in a way that you do not. It's the sort of total self-containment that might make sense out on the frontier, but doesn't really work if you grew up in Nuneaton.
Ngl, my respect for Bonnie kinda went up after listening to the full episode. She came across as reasonable and her personality came off as rather sweet and nice, even if her career choice would be considered a moral failing by most.
There was an interesting comment on the YouTube video that I though was insightful where someone said she almost has a similar mental fortitude to soldiers/spec ops guys in that she can do something that would sicken most people (women in this case) but she can still sleep well after it. Almost like a mental superpower. I thought it was interesting observation.
That "mental superpower" isn't siloed from the rest of the brain, i.e., if someone is able to kill another person in war, it does not mean that effect is unique to the context of war. A lot of soldiers are traumatized into emotional numbness, not many of them start off that way but the ones that do can often apply that state of mind in situations where it isn't appropriate. It isn't necessarily mental fortitude but a display of antisocial behavior. It's useful to a soldier, it's at best not healthy in most situations and at worst fatal.
I saw that one too. I would agree with you that her choice of career is less than moral, but I do think that on the whole people like her with that personality are useful to everyone, if deployed in the eight way.
What struck me about BB was that she displayed a similar behaviour of both Louise and Chris. On their respective podcasts I've heard them both, when confronted with a word or topic that they don't know, simply ask their guest straight out rather than pretend that they know.
Bonnie did this 6-7 times during the podcast, with words from both Louise and Chris, without a hint of her feeling stupid at not knowing. I'd say this was a positive thing.
Definitely Louise's old roots in anthropology came through, trying to understand the tribeswoman from this thoroughly alien culture...
The vibes of this interview are fascinating. Louise’s intense curiosity about Bonnie - and her determination to be humane - overlaid with Chris’s barely concealed contempt (and almost simmering rage) towards her. All the while Bonnie looks on with emotional flatness.
Not familiar with Chris, but he seemed odd & pretentious
This interview showed a different side of him. I've watch many of his interviews and in them he's relaxed and engaged with his guest. In this interview, IMO, he had a difficult time concealing disgust/ irritation with BB, whilst his comeraderie with Louise was openly apparent. We don't know the interactions prior to the cameras rolling; I've read another interviewer report BB flirting/ making provocative comments to him, making the interview a bit awkward.
Fair enough
BB: "I'm not going to screw your whole camera crew."
C: "Please don't."
BB:"Oh, c'mon, what's this great table for?"
She showed her claws there. She smacked him back in a "playful" way, but it was to show her dominance of C and men in general.
You just hit on why so many women are okay with "porn". Spite. They like the idea of dominating the lives of teen boys and young men.
You're so right. I forgot about that interaction.
Honestly.... I think it's because she's a sociopath vs Lily who is clearly traumatized and seemingly exploited by her own family. A sociopath in the true sense of her brain is different and in the same manner that many CEOs, surgeons, journalists, financial sector people, etc. and many other outliers in all areas of life are. Not all sociopaths are murderers or criminals. This is also not a case for sex work but a case against it. As such an outlier, she cannot be an example for the average person and striving to be like her is not a possible thing if you have a normal brain.
I came here to write this. I am no psychoanalyst but to me, she seems to be sociopathic. Someone in the comments even mentioned that when she didn’t know something, she asked the question, even at the risk of being viewed as uneducated/unintelligent. Whilst I think this is sensible, a lot of people will go along with what’s being said as to not “look stupid” but she isn’t concerned with how she is viewed. What makes it worse is she craves notoriety/attention and this very podcast/debate buys right into that. I imagine she would be a high achiever in anything she pursued. Whether she will have long-term issues as a result of this lifestyle probably hinges on whether she is actually sociopathic or not. In some ways, I hope she is because I can’t see how this wouldn’t have a detrimental impact on her down the line
Yes, many if not most people have to overcome the discomfort of appearing vulnerable in any context and I don't think she even sees it as a vulnerability to ask. In some way I also hope she is but I think the people around her are more likely to have long term issues.
I remember reading or watching something from a person who was a high achieving executive type but she knew she was sociopath and had children. She showed love to them as she was socially expected on the surface, she was acting. She stated this. She claimed they didn't know. There's a TED talk by a man who studied sociopaths from a few years ago talking about he spotted his own sociopathy on brain scans while doing neuro research. He was a PhD research scientist in a difficult subject and said that he was protected by the love of his family and a good upbringing but when he thought about his personality traits of being competitive, high achieving regardless of consequence, curiosity regardless of outcome, etc. That's BB here.
If she is a sociopath she's also probably being honest about having a good family background, because that would protect her from going down the more common sex industry track deep into the abyss. She is not there to please others as she states. Unlike Lily who talked about being upset that the men participating in the 101 man travesty weren't having fun.
Wow, you've blown me away a bit here. Thanks for that eye-opening response - the effort you've gone to is really appreciated
Near the end she talks about being bored with questions about her family dynamic and says "I can understand why you'd think it" in response. This highlights that she is aware of the common backgrounds and experience of women in the sex industry. She knows there's usually abuse otherwise she wouldn't understand why they'd ask questions about her family or growing up. She's aware of the problems.
Tia Emma Billinger makes White women look like whores.
Pornography truly is (anti-White) racist propaganda.
It is the primary reason why single foreign men are here.
It was interesting to see this issue of race addressed at 39 mins. in.
And Billinger's reply (43:16):
"I'm very selfish. I'm not too concerned about what's going off in the world."
Dirty slags like Billinger do not reduce "rape rates" - they are actually attracting thousands of diseased, inbred and hostile alien males into our country and into our backyards and homes.
This woman is the same thing as always - an excrescence of our own subverted moral standards, amplified by an invasion of foreign men and widespread poverty.
While the West obsesses over a tiny number of Africans that were briefly enslaved in the American south, these foreign - especially Islamic - men intend to reinstate the 1,400 years of White slavery that was briefly interrupted by the collapse of the Ottoman empire.
You were so kind to her! It was more of an analysis than a debate.
Your line of questioning and tactics were interesting but she’s boring to someone like me who knows a lot of happy and industrious sluts and prostitutes personally. What was exposed are the unusual characteristics that make her, as opposed to the majority of womankind, capable of making money how she does without serious problems.
The biggest problem with the Bonnie Blue phenomenon is that her life is seen as aspirational for young women.
Also, I felt that Louise was holding back from saying “yes, I believe that you are happy and this life doesn’t cause you distress etc., but it is bad for your soul!”
Finally, she is straightforwardly a menace to society, in a similar way to Andrew Tate but even more destructive ultimately, and should be banned from all college campuses.
An outstanding dyad interview. At all times respectful but so smart in the way it invites Bonnie to disclose so much more than she realises. One thing that you didn’t explore with her Louise was the constant reference to being happy .. herself or others - and what she means by it. She didn’t really have any other word to use did she?
My understanding is that Bonnie believes that it is only money and materialism that makes us happy. Even the price any future offspring will pay for their Mothers notoriety will be offset by a jetset lifestyle. I found this interview deeply disturbing and tragic .. she is so removed from her body she’s unable to identify feelings or have any facial expressions. Of course she is… how else could she do what she does without being out of body.
Well done both of you for never shaming or judging her and allowing her to reveal in her own words .. her psyche. A masterpiece of interviewing.
She comes across as streetwise, but not the most self-aware. Didn't seem malicious though, and she does seem to genuinely enjoy relieving horny teenage men. Which is a public service of sorts.
Her appetite for a queue of complete strangers is certainly unusual, but in many ways she's less a freak and more a product of her times. Just consider, she took family and relatives to see that screening. What kind of family would do that? And mothers stop her for selfies and say "I love your content!" So it's not just her; it's seeping into the culture.
I see what she's doing and feel sure it's wrong, but I struggle to explain why. I can think of reasons, but it's not the real reason. It reminds me of Jonathan Haidt's The Righteous Mind. I'm paraphrasing, but: "If a man buys a chicken from the supermarket, takes it home and has sex with it, then eats it, is that wrong?" or "If an adult brother and sister use contraception and have consensual sex, it that ok?" We know it's wrong, but have lost the language to say so. There is no moral framework left standing that can say, "women shouldn't do that".
We are raising kids in a sickening dystopia. Everyone finds it all so amusing.
She's not the most hated woman in Britain. That's just more of the gaping maw of need for attention.
I watched some of this (it’s long, but so much ground is covered), and my biggest takeaway is how our culture has come to treat sex as a hobby, rather than the most fundamental act of human connection and survival. It raises urgent questions, like what becomes of us, individually and collectively, when we strip meaning from the very process that ensures our future? I was moved enough to write a whole piece in response, Louise. The questions you’re surfacing are vital, and I deeply appreciate them, especially as I sit bedside with families each day, bearing witness to the profound and universal moment of birth.
Thanks for doing this interview.
Initial thoughts: Whenever a woman is still in the sex industry, she will put a positive spin on it, even if it's not true, because the financial motive is still there.
Regarding childhood trauma, Tia (Bonnie's real name) may not have experienced this, but she does have real or perceived trauma going on, and it's a mistake to think trauma has to be "one thing" or that it has to be childhood trauma. It can be composite trauma, or even just the perception.
With Tia, I think a lot of it has to do with something she has spoken about in interviews: bullying from other females and her former marriage. She even admits here that she "took a while" to realize that her ex-husband wasn't the one for her. She was ACTING for that period, and very likely disassociating.
BEFORE SHE ENTERED porn, she had known what it was like to PRETEND. And to pretend sexually.
She may say she doesn't "hate" other women, and women are not all the same in how they think, but she is likely also motivated by seeking a kind of "revenge" on the women who have wronged and bullied her, and the women who are in relationships with these men that she sexes are stand-ins for the "other" women--the mean, bullying ones. And there ARE many of these women.
She seems like she has hardly had female friendships and likely doesn't care anymore to have them. She seems pragmatic and focused on the money. There is no way gang-bangs are healthy, though, and, if she can endure them, it is because she is focused on WHAT THE CAMERA SEES and not what her body feels, or is TRYING to feel.
This is a numb and numbed woman, who participates in her own numbing, and thinks she has made a good trade-off.
Others have commented on the blankness in Tia's eyes. That's often the "disassociation" look, as well as the matter-of-fact way she talks about some extreme things, like "gang-bangs".
She likely feels like she had to "endure" sex before with her ex-husband, and this is preferred since she is now financially compensated by being filmed with random men who she doesn't have to share the bathroom with, which is why she says that the gold-digger married woman is more of a sex worker than she is. Touche! But I would counter with you BOTH are in the sex industry, and the gold-digger just is less likely to ADMIT it.
The only trustworthy narratives about the sex industry come from women who have left it, and I am glad that the author Rachel Moran is mentioned here. Her book, which she wrote after she left, is called "Paid For..."
I think a question Tia should have been asked would have been: "Did you feel you could choose between other equally financially lucrative options BEFORE going down this path?" Keeping in mind, of course, that she is still in the industry and will want to "mask" up and put that positive spin on it.
I would really like to understand the psychology of how Bonnie went from married life and trying for a baby to her current lifestyle. I am not sure how old she is but I assume she married quite young ( not typical these days ) and then speaks about trying to get pregnant for 18 months. I assume in a parallel universe there is a Bonnie we never heard of with a couple of kids. She led a very 'conventional' life up to this point, she dismisses it saying her jobs were boring, wouldn't want to be with her ex etc. I think both Louise and the host picked up on it at this point in the interview, I don't understand the 'leap'..........