Thanks Louise. Fascinating & disturbing conversation. I have all sorts of follow-up questions for David. Any chance of us followers submitting questions & then you get him back to address them? E.g.
- Are large political changes impossible... or just too late now? With the re-election of Trump, it (so far) looks like a sea-change in the p…
Thanks Louise. Fascinating & disturbing conversation. I have all sorts of follow-up questions for David. Any chance of us followers submitting questions & then you get him back to address them? E.g.
- Are large political changes impossible... or just too late now? With the re-election of Trump, it (so far) looks like a sea-change in the political environment in the U.S. And here in Europe the AfD is starting to seriously influence politics in Germany. Is it not possible that there could be a large political shift here in the UK within the next few years which could bring about very different policies & defuse much of the frustration? Or have we really gone too far already?
- What about inter-ethnic conflict? David talks about the majority white population's anger at the political elites/the state, and that that anger would initially be expressed through e.g. attacks on state infrastructure. He also sees it taking the form of country vs city. But what about *inter-ethnic* conflict, which seems equally plausible to me? Or if that's just a later stage of a series of escalating steps, how does he see the steps playing out?
- Aren't we too old for this? Early on you brought up the age profile of the UK, along with the common view that civil wars can't happen in a country where so many people are old. David said that was mere conventional wisdom & not true. But he didn't really elaborate. Is the age profile of a country completely irrelevant to civil war? And how would the age profile of the UK affect the way any conflict would play out?
- 'Downgrading' was a key idea i.e. the majority population feeling that it's losing its position & feeling defensive & angry about that. In other words, the main impetus for conflict comes from *the majority*. Since recent terrorism, attacks & large-scale protests (e.g. pro-Palestine) have been almost entirely Muslim, I've always thought that if things really started to break down it would be Muslims kicking things off & harassing non-Muslims on a much larger scale. Of course one doesn't preclude the other. But how does David see this playing out?
Anyhow, just thought I'd put these questions out there. Thanks for the very good conversation.
Take the Pakistanis that dominate my town, for example. How do we fight a very tight-knit group that can communicate and organise in a different language?
And when the fighting starts, what if they can access weaponry? In a country with few guns, a shipping container of AK47s goes a long way.
There may already be plans afoot, probably financed with a government small business grant.
Bear in mind inciting civil war in the West is an explicit aim of many Islamic terror groups, so I don't think this is far-fetched.
How will the state attempt to contain this? Our army is dwarfed by the size of the Muslim diaspora, probably outnumbering them a thousand to one. Our police have fat arses, the men too.
I have noticed the mood is definitely changing though. I often speak to working class men. We will exchange remarks, as if testing the water. It's like we're all getting ready.
Once the fighting starts and the impotence of the state becomes clear, it's possible that regional militia could spring up quickly to police our local areas and maintain order.
Remember all the coercion and conformity around masks and social distancing? Misplaced on that occasion, but evidence of the urge to unite for a cause. It will be a test of what social capital remains.
This is a massive if, but if we can organise quickly, dismiss the government and get the army onside, we could minimise the violence by sheer weight of numbers.
Probably pie in the sky. As a nation we're in uncharted territory now, so it's anyone's guess what happens next. But something will certainly happen, and it won't be nice. We'd better get ready, like he said.
My focus now is on building a sense of community with my neighbours. We live on the fringes of downtown Karachi, so in the firing line when things erupt. We need to feel we have something worth fighting for.
Yes, I kept waiting for the explicit discussion of this aspect, and it never really came. From what I saw on social media, the Southport riots involved groups of Muslims vs. groups of white people. This seems like it would be a big part of any future civil war in the UK.
It is the only reasonable pattern for any civil war. I expect the Sikhs and Hindhus would fight with the native Brits but how many of the native Brits (and moderate Moslems) would join in with the 'peace loving tolerant' Islamists
Hi Toby, I can’t answer as well as David obviously, but with respect to age, I’d point you to Donbas in Eastern Ukraine. Despite demographic decline for some decades it seems they still had enough young people to start shooting at each other.
Thanks Louise. Fascinating & disturbing conversation. I have all sorts of follow-up questions for David. Any chance of us followers submitting questions & then you get him back to address them? E.g.
- Are large political changes impossible... or just too late now? With the re-election of Trump, it (so far) looks like a sea-change in the political environment in the U.S. And here in Europe the AfD is starting to seriously influence politics in Germany. Is it not possible that there could be a large political shift here in the UK within the next few years which could bring about very different policies & defuse much of the frustration? Or have we really gone too far already?
- What about inter-ethnic conflict? David talks about the majority white population's anger at the political elites/the state, and that that anger would initially be expressed through e.g. attacks on state infrastructure. He also sees it taking the form of country vs city. But what about *inter-ethnic* conflict, which seems equally plausible to me? Or if that's just a later stage of a series of escalating steps, how does he see the steps playing out?
- Aren't we too old for this? Early on you brought up the age profile of the UK, along with the common view that civil wars can't happen in a country where so many people are old. David said that was mere conventional wisdom & not true. But he didn't really elaborate. Is the age profile of a country completely irrelevant to civil war? And how would the age profile of the UK affect the way any conflict would play out?
- 'Downgrading' was a key idea i.e. the majority population feeling that it's losing its position & feeling defensive & angry about that. In other words, the main impetus for conflict comes from *the majority*. Since recent terrorism, attacks & large-scale protests (e.g. pro-Palestine) have been almost entirely Muslim, I've always thought that if things really started to break down it would be Muslims kicking things off & harassing non-Muslims on a much larger scale. Of course one doesn't preclude the other. But how does David see this playing out?
Anyhow, just thought I'd put these questions out there. Thanks for the very good conversation.
Thanks Toby, yes I had been thinking of doing a follow-up with David responding to listeners’ questions, I’ll ask him
I wonder how it will play out too.
Take the Pakistanis that dominate my town, for example. How do we fight a very tight-knit group that can communicate and organise in a different language?
And when the fighting starts, what if they can access weaponry? In a country with few guns, a shipping container of AK47s goes a long way.
There may already be plans afoot, probably financed with a government small business grant.
Bear in mind inciting civil war in the West is an explicit aim of many Islamic terror groups, so I don't think this is far-fetched.
How will the state attempt to contain this? Our army is dwarfed by the size of the Muslim diaspora, probably outnumbering them a thousand to one. Our police have fat arses, the men too.
I have noticed the mood is definitely changing though. I often speak to working class men. We will exchange remarks, as if testing the water. It's like we're all getting ready.
Once the fighting starts and the impotence of the state becomes clear, it's possible that regional militia could spring up quickly to police our local areas and maintain order.
Remember all the coercion and conformity around masks and social distancing? Misplaced on that occasion, but evidence of the urge to unite for a cause. It will be a test of what social capital remains.
This is a massive if, but if we can organise quickly, dismiss the government and get the army onside, we could minimise the violence by sheer weight of numbers.
Probably pie in the sky. As a nation we're in uncharted territory now, so it's anyone's guess what happens next. But something will certainly happen, and it won't be nice. We'd better get ready, like he said.
My focus now is on building a sense of community with my neighbours. We live on the fringes of downtown Karachi, so in the firing line when things erupt. We need to feel we have something worth fighting for.
> inter-ethnic conflict
Yes, I kept waiting for the explicit discussion of this aspect, and it never really came. From what I saw on social media, the Southport riots involved groups of Muslims vs. groups of white people. This seems like it would be a big part of any future civil war in the UK.
It is the only reasonable pattern for any civil war. I expect the Sikhs and Hindhus would fight with the native Brits but how many of the native Brits (and moderate Moslems) would join in with the 'peace loving tolerant' Islamists
Hi Toby, I can’t answer as well as David obviously, but with respect to age, I’d point you to Donbas in Eastern Ukraine. Despite demographic decline for some decades it seems they still had enough young people to start shooting at each other.